Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter): Just yesterday ANOTHER one of SV's incidence in recent days: this time, the landing gear wouldnt open in an MD90 coming in from RUH to Saudi's northern city of Tabook. This time the airplane citcled the airport for 1.5 horrific hours before landing on a soap-filled runway belly first. All 120+ pax safe. What is up with SV? Personally, I am alarmed and would not be surprised if a fatal incident or accident does occur. These are all the incidents I counted so far in the recent month: 1. 777 with hole in the wing in JED 2. 747 in Dakkah 3. 747 emergency landing in JED (2 days ago) 4. This incident A run of bad luck I think. SV as Saudi Arabian (I know/knew them better as Saudia) have been very capable in my experience - I dont have any worries about them from a safety point of view, despite these incidents. Their partner for Hadj flights - Phuket Air on the other hand, well I cannot say the same for them. An aluminium shower/crater in the concrete waiting to happen I suspect strongly.

"REJOICE! Bush is (bad) history! - GO OBAMA! Make the World love the USA again!"

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter): . 777 with hole in the wing in JED Technically that was a few months back.

One Life, Live it.

Can you elaborate on the two 747 incidents?

Yes.

I'm probably biased, but I'm with Chris here. Whatever their faults service wise, I am confident of SV's safety standard. However the same cannot be said of some of the companies they're wet leasing from. The increasing reliance on these wet leases to fill the shortfall is something that concerns me greatly. Quoting Ramzi (Reply 3): Can you elaborate on the two 747 incidents? Dhaka incident: Air Atlanta 747-300 TF-ARS , 25 March 2008 On landing on runway a fire breaks out on no3 engine pylon (suspected leaking fuel line). Fire service extinguish the fire as soon as the plane comes to a standstill and plane is evacuated by slides. Jeddah incident: Phuket Air 747-200 HS-VAC, 5 May 2008 Left wing gear fails to deploy as bogey is caught by door. Plane lands cleanly on runway but leans to the left as it decelerates down the runway, however it didn't tip completely, engines didn't touch the ground.

agreed - saudia's own metal/staff are safe/reliable. wet-leased aircraft are a problem.

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 4): Dhaka incident: Air Atlanta 747-300 TF-ARS , 25 March 2008 On landing on runway a fire breaks out on no3 engine pylon (suspected leaking fuel line). Fire service extinguish the fire as soon as the plane comes to a standstill and plane is evacuated by slides. Jeddah incident: Phuket Air 747-200 HS-VAC, 5 May 2008 Left wing gear fails to deploy as bogey is caught by door. Plane lands cleanly on runway but leans to the left as it decelerates down the runway, however it didn't tip completely, engines didn't touch the ground. Thanks. I think Saudia ar reliable, but some of their aircraft sch as the MD90s are pretty old...

Yes.

Quoting Ramzi (Reply 6): Thanks. I think Saudia ar reliable, but some of their aircraft sch as the MD90s are pretty old... If I am not mistaken, the first MD90 aircraft in commercial service was with Delta sometime around 1995 - these aircraft are young by any standard and, well, by the standard of MDD aircraft, they are downright new.... [Long live the DC9!]

A pic would be nice,but this is Saudi Arabia we're talking about . I know there was talk about DL maybe taking some of the MD90's ... this one sounds like a write-off. That must be real scarry to be in when that happened.

Cuz in this life,things are much harder than the afterlife.In this life,you're on your own.-Prince

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter): This time the airplane citcled the airport for 1.5 horrific hours before landing on a soap-filled runway belly first. I'd probably find this more annoying than horrific. I hate circling lol. But I understand the need for time to foam the runway which to be honest would probably be exciting to me. Tchau DA-

They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter): This time the airplane citcled the airport for 1.5 horrific hours Horrific ???? It's up to the crew to explain to the passengers what is going on and how the crew is handling the incident professionally and as safely as possible. A gear up landing is not a disaster waiting to happen. It is a big inconvenience certainly. Of course if there were 200 people on a plane and 199 of them followed the emergency instructions correctly and thought the crew kept them informed and safe - the media would interview the one who had a different opinion.

I'd have no particular problem about flying SV (apart from the fact that I'd be flying to Saudi Arabia, which wouldn't be uppermost on my list of places to visit!); as Orlando666 pointed out, SV itself is fine, but the wet-leases are of concern. Even Air Atlanta wouldn't bother me, but Phuket Air certainly would. The MD90 incident seems to have been well handled; they had a gear problem; they circled to burn off fuel and the runway was foamed; seems to have been well handled by all accounts. Incidents happen to all carriers and SV is quite a big airline, so they will have the odd incident now and then.

Go, Dustin, Go! Ruffle some feathers at Eurovision 2008!

I find it interesting the way so many of you treat a belly landing as Ho-Hum. Me thinks that if you were on the flight it would be anything but. Remember planes DO crash. Situations like this one can start the chain of events that may lead to disaster. Personally I would have been filling my pants.

G'day

Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 12): I find it interesting the way so many of you treat a belly landing as Ho-Hum. Me thinks that if you were on the flight it would be anything but. Remember planes DO crash. Situations like this one can start the chain of events that may lead to disaster. Personally I would have been filling my pants. I've been through several precautionary landings in commercial jets, including my second every flight in a National Airlines DC-8 with an unsafe gear indication and a foamed runway. The crew was totally professional and had us ready to evacuate quickly if needed. No panic. Concern and prayer - yes, but nothing more. I've been through two single engine landings in commercial turbo props. While I was in the US Navy, we lost all navgear and most electronics on a flight from Atsugi to Guam due to lightning strikes, on one mission over the Gulf of Tonkin we lost both starboard engines on the EC-121 and the landing at Danang was tense. A few others - professionalism of the crew is important. The closest I've come to going down - a Republic Airlines B727 between MEM and SHV. I don't know how bad the thunderstorm was - but a F/A broke her leg when the drink cart hit her - while she was on the ceiling. But the most important thing is - there are about 10-15 wheels up or no nose gear commercial aircraft landings each year. And about only one severe accident with major injuries or death in those incidents about every four or five years. Takeoff incidents on the other hand - bad news. Frankly, you are much more at risk in my opinion on a late night 'normal' landing about anywhere in the world than on a well prepared wheels up landing. Because there have been two fatals of commercial aircraft in that situation I can remember in the past year or 18 months. Turkey, Brazil - probably more. But you have to be ready for an emergency evacuation every time you get on an airplane. That includes actually counting the seat rows to two different exits. Wearing shoes in which you can run through pools of burning jet fuel if necessary, only wearing cotton or other natural fiber clothes. Having no bare skin showing on your legs, and a jacket or sweater to cover your arms. I know three people who lived through crashes in commercial aircraft. One a DC-9 northwest of Atlanta in a hail storm - set down on a roadway. Bad fire - he was two years in rehab. Another was on a Delta B727 which crashed on takeoff from DFW in the 80's. They were the parents of a high school classmate. His father was fine with some minor 2nd degree burns on his legs where his pants caught fire from the fuel. She had a lot of skin graft surgery because she was wearing a dress and nylons - which melted into her skin. She also had to have major surgery on her feet and never walked normally due to the shoes she had on - low heels - she lost them and was barefoot - got some bad metal puncture injuries. Each and every one of us take life threatening risks every day. It's a matter of recognizing that you are taking a risk and minimizing the elements you can control. And there is a lot you can control to improve your safety on a commerical aircraft.

One other thing - sit as close to the window as possible. Because all that heavy cr..p in the overhead bins is going to fall out if the landing is exceptionally rough.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 13): But you have to be ready for an emergency evacuation every time you get on an airplane. That includes actually counting the seat rows to two different exits. Wearing shoes in which you can run through pools of burning jet fuel if necessary, only wearing cotton or other natural fiber clothes. Having no bare skin showing on your legs, and a jacket or sweater to cover your arms. From personal experience on evacuating a full 722 in the runway, I agree to the above. I laugh when I see people boarding the plane wearing shorts. When I went down the slide, I was chaffed on my butt and underside of my legs for a week. People going down those slides in shorts will probably leave their skins smeared all the way down. Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 14): One other thing - sit as close to the window as possible. Because all that heavy cr..p in the overhead bins is going to fall out if the landing is exceptionally rough. I dunno about that. It might save you from falling stuff, sure, but I am 6 ft and 220 lbs and on that day I was sitting on the window. When the plane stopped and the order to evacuate was given, it was impossible to get over to the aisle. I had to start kicking, shoving, punching, pushing and elbowing hysterical people that would not let me through. I thought I was going to die staring at the fabulous floral pattern of the seat. Ever since, I always go for the emergency exit. I don't care if I have to pay more for it.

MGGS

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1): Their partner for Hadj flights - Phuket Air on the other hand, well I cannot say the same for them. An aluminium shower/crater in the concrete waiting to happen I suspect strongly. I didn't know Phuket Air was flying again - I was under the impression that they were shut down a couple of years ago on account of the (lack of) safety. Interesting. Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 14): One other thing - sit as close to the window as possible. As much as I love perusing the terrain below, I'm the first one to admit that the window seat (particularly in a 3-3 config) is the coffin seat. No way in hell I'd realistically be able to climb over the human mess to get to an exit on time. 777fan

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke

Quoting 777fan (Reply 16): No way in hell I'd realistically be able to climb over the human mess to get to an exit on time. You made my case. Please refer to my post, 15.

MGGS

Any reason for the L/G not extending. regds MEL

Think of the brighter side!

Quoting AR385 (Reply 15): It might save you from falling stuff, sure, but I am 6 ft and 220 lbs and on that day I was sitting on the window. When the plane stopped and the order to evacuate was given, it was impossible to get over to the aisle. I had to start kicking, shoving, punching, pushing and elbowing hysterical people that would not let me through. With all respect, seems you acted like a hysterical person here

Quoting AR385 (Reply 15): Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 13): But you have to be ready for an emergency evacuation every time you get on an airplane. That includes actually counting the seat rows to two different exits. Wearing shoes in which you can run through pools of burning jet fuel if necessary, only wearing cotton or other natural fiber clothes. Having no bare skin showing on your legs, and a jacket or sweater to cover your arms. From personal experience on evacuating a full 722 in the runway, I agree to the above. I laugh when I see people boarding the plane wearing shorts. When I went down the slide, I was chaffed on my butt and underside of my legs for a week. People going down those slides in shorts will probably leave their skins smeared all the way down. Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 14): One other thing - sit as close to the window as possible. Because all that heavy cr..p in the overhead bins is going to fall out if the landing is exceptionally rough. I dunno about that. It might save you from falling stuff, sure, but I am 6 ft and 220 lbs and on that day I was sitting on the window. When the plane stopped and the order to evacuate was given, it was impossible to get over to the aisle. I had to start kicking, shoving, punching, pushing and elbowing hysterical people that would not let me through. I thought I was going to die staring at the fabulous floral pattern of the seat. Ever since, I always go for the emergency exit. I don't care if I have to pay more for it. I'm glad you all made it out okay. This is why FA's (at least in the US) are required to inform passengers to ensure that all carryon items are securely stowed, leaving all aisles completely clear (tripping hazard). In addition, all seatbacks must be fully upright in order to ensure that the passenger behind the seat has as much room to stand without difficulty (Ever try standing with the seat in front of you reclined? It's quite difficult to do). Safety is paramount and you certainly have great advice for all air travelers - always be prepared for an emergency and be prepared to exit quickly (most carriers worldwide train their FAs to evacuate a full aircraft within 90 seconds - the average estimated time it takes for an aircraft to burn/explode). You never know if that .001% chance of encountering an evacuation will include your flight. Cheers

Didn't a Saudi MD-90 burn on the tarmac/ramp within the past year?